In another topic someone posited that The Law must be obeyed. This is apparently inclusive of the 613 Old Testament laws.
Myself, I separate the Laws of God from the laws of men. And some of what appears in the Bible were laws created by men. Not unlike how government agencies promulgate rules after Congress issues a law, the clerics and governments of old produced their own laws which supposedly flowed from the Ten Commandments.
The original Hebrew Ten Commandments translated to English are:
In short, the Ten Commandments are the literal Word of God. They are not an inspiration, they are not a vision, they are proof of God being present in the company of man.
They are the Law. And every last one of them not only applies in our time they also constitute wise and sage advice. The proof of this is found in the lives of everyone who refuses to obey them.
But what of the laws of men? How do we identify them?
Myself, I posit that any of the 613 laws that has been rendered obsolete by time was a creation of men. It is not a disobedience to ignore these laws anymore than it is the act of a scofflaw to refuse to hold a red lamp in front of their car when it is being driven at night. That used to be the law in much of the USA circa 1900-1915.
In some places the law is still on the books while it is unenforced. No one with a lick of sense would suggest obeying it let alone enforcing it. Quite the contrary, it's probably illegal to do this even in places where the law is still on the books.
With me so far? Good.
Now who was the first person to come along and ignore these laws of men that pretended to be of God?
Jesus. That's Who.
He healed people on the Sabbath in defiance of Jewish authorities who said that their laws and traditions prohibited such mercies.
It is of note that Jesus' acts of healing further challenged Jewish understandings because they saw physical afflictions as the result of sin and that atonement and sacrifice were necessary for healing. Then Jesus comes along and heals people. They asked Him under what authority He was healing people because in healing them He was symbolically (and literally) forgiving their sins.
The Jewish authorities were so stuck in their stupid laws that they preferred people should needlessly suffer as opposed to receiving physical and spiritual healing through Christ Jesus, the Son of God.
Jesus spurned those laws because they did not come from God.
The Apostles followed Jesus and in Acts 5:29 they made clear that they followed the Laws of God and not the laws of men.
It follows then that in any situation where Jesus followed the Laws of God while spurning and often condemning the laws of men that He remained sinless. Breaking an unjust religious law can then be a Godly act.
I assert that God has instilled in His people a moral authority that urges us to follow a Higher Authority and to find God's Law in our hearts and not just in the law books or in the religious texts.
There are a number of Old Testament laws that have been rendered obsolete by time.
Meanwhile laws that came from God Himself stand the test of time and obeying them reveals their validity.
When obeying these laws and loudly calling for others to obey them yields no fruit then why obey them? They serve no purpose.
There is this:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal." 1 Cor 13:1
Some would propose that OT and Biblical laws be obeyed if not for any reason but to demonstrate obedience. But what is the point of doing so if the obedience comes not from Godly Wisdom and the Love of Jesus but only to demonstrate to the world one's religiosity, as we would see with those who tie on phylacteries, flagellate themselves in public, loudly pray so that all may be impressed by their loud praying, and etc. ?
*＊✿❀ ❀✿＊*
Now something personal.
I came from a secular leftish Hollywood entertainment family. Christianity wasn't just alien to me and my family, it was abhorrent.
Christians rejected the Sacred secular/left tenets of feminism, abortion, divorce, promiscuity, ever increasing taxes, destruction of the family, and etc. and I had been taught how awful these people were because of this.
Then my brother died of an overdose. Then my mother and father descended into a spiral of self destruction. I got damaged along the way.
The utter lie of our life and our 'values' was clearly demonstrated to me. Sure, it could be nice, but it was as durable as a house of cards in a hurricane.
Then I saw some examples of imperfect people who were living in poly and while I wasn't going to join them I was fascinated because what could be seen were big families, feminine wives, and hard working husbands. And they were clean, well fed, and smiling in the face of adversity.
That looked pretty good to me and I sought it out.
God led me to an established poly family who were struggling Christians, their second wife was trying but she, like me, came from a secular background. They were trying to lead a Godly life and the evidence of it was abundant.
The husband was assuming his role as the patriarch. He had things to work on but he was working on them.
The kids were happy and well behaved.
The debts were paid off.
Good things were happening.
A Blessing was descending.
I had to be cajoled into making up my mind but I did and I joined them.
At the start I obeyed the house rules and later discovered the Biblical sources of those rules.
Crazy thing is my life got better.
As I came along I took on the role of a wife and my husband and family responded to me with support and encouragement. They sent me to culinary school. They sent me to martial arts training. I became a pilot. They made me into the person they knew I could be.
None of this would have happened had I not sought out a more Godly life.
It's part of why I don't necessarily see God's Law as The Law. I see it as loving and fatherly advice.
God wants us to be His People and He wants us to prosper as His children. Not in the 'name it and claim it' sense, but He wants us to prosper as the logical outcome of living a Godly life.
Therefore His Laws, which stand the test of time, contribute to our overall happiness and prosperity. There are logical outcomes with demonstrated results of living a Godly life versus living a life without God.
That to me is the line that divides God's Laws from the laws of men. God's Laws always lead to productive and predictable outcomes and they stand the test of time, just the same as their Author.
The laws of men can be cast aside with no detriment. This is because they never had a measurable benefit.
I hope that answers your question @Mojo
Myself, I separate the Laws of God from the laws of men. And some of what appears in the Bible were laws created by men. Not unlike how government agencies promulgate rules after Congress issues a law, the clerics and governments of old produced their own laws which supposedly flowed from the Ten Commandments.
The original Hebrew Ten Commandments translated to English are:
- I am the L‑rd your G‑d, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
- You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, nor any manner of likeness of anything that is in heaven above, that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them. For I the L‑rd your G‑d am a jealous G‑d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children of the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
- You shall not take the name of the L‑rd your G‑d in vain; for the L‑rd will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.
- Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the L‑rd your G‑d. On it you shall not do any manner of work—you, your son, your daughter, your man-servant, your maid-servant, your cattle, and your stranger that is within your gates. For in six days the L‑rd made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the L‑rd blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
- Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long upon the land which the L‑rd your G‑d gives you.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
- You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maid-servant, his ox, his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
In short, the Ten Commandments are the literal Word of God. They are not an inspiration, they are not a vision, they are proof of God being present in the company of man.
They are the Law. And every last one of them not only applies in our time they also constitute wise and sage advice. The proof of this is found in the lives of everyone who refuses to obey them.
But what of the laws of men? How do we identify them?
Myself, I posit that any of the 613 laws that has been rendered obsolete by time was a creation of men. It is not a disobedience to ignore these laws anymore than it is the act of a scofflaw to refuse to hold a red lamp in front of their car when it is being driven at night. That used to be the law in much of the USA circa 1900-1915.
In some places the law is still on the books while it is unenforced. No one with a lick of sense would suggest obeying it let alone enforcing it. Quite the contrary, it's probably illegal to do this even in places where the law is still on the books.
With me so far? Good.
Now who was the first person to come along and ignore these laws of men that pretended to be of God?
Jesus. That's Who.
He healed people on the Sabbath in defiance of Jewish authorities who said that their laws and traditions prohibited such mercies.
It is of note that Jesus' acts of healing further challenged Jewish understandings because they saw physical afflictions as the result of sin and that atonement and sacrifice were necessary for healing. Then Jesus comes along and heals people. They asked Him under what authority He was healing people because in healing them He was symbolically (and literally) forgiving their sins.
The Jewish authorities were so stuck in their stupid laws that they preferred people should needlessly suffer as opposed to receiving physical and spiritual healing through Christ Jesus, the Son of God.
Jesus spurned those laws because they did not come from God.
The Apostles followed Jesus and in Acts 5:29 they made clear that they followed the Laws of God and not the laws of men.
It follows then that in any situation where Jesus followed the Laws of God while spurning and often condemning the laws of men that He remained sinless. Breaking an unjust religious law can then be a Godly act.
I assert that God has instilled in His people a moral authority that urges us to follow a Higher Authority and to find God's Law in our hearts and not just in the law books or in the religious texts.
There are a number of Old Testament laws that have been rendered obsolete by time.
- We no longer wear tassels (tzitzits) on our garments.
- We no longer concern ourselves of wearing mixed fabrics. Right now I am wearing cotton, spandex, satin, polyester, and no one cares.
- We no longer sacrifice animals, food, or wine at temples that no longer exist.
- We do not perform cleansing rituals partly because modern standards of hygiene and dress have obviated such practices. Most of us take a shower before worship anyway and performing a cleansing ritual would be redundant.
- We do not slaughter Passover lambs. We do not need to even though the law was never revoked.
- We do not circumcise male babies at birth as a rule.
- We do not sacrifice first born animals nor do we redeem first born sons.
- The laws regarding the treatment of slaves are ignored because we no longer have slaves.
- We do not tie phylacteries onto our foreheads.
- We eat pork and shellfish because we know how to safely handle them now. Bacon...mmmmmmm.
- Etc.
Meanwhile laws that came from God Himself stand the test of time and obeying them reveals their validity.
When obeying these laws and loudly calling for others to obey them yields no fruit then why obey them? They serve no purpose.
There is this:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal." 1 Cor 13:1
Some would propose that OT and Biblical laws be obeyed if not for any reason but to demonstrate obedience. But what is the point of doing so if the obedience comes not from Godly Wisdom and the Love of Jesus but only to demonstrate to the world one's religiosity, as we would see with those who tie on phylacteries, flagellate themselves in public, loudly pray so that all may be impressed by their loud praying, and etc. ?
*＊✿❀ ❀✿＊*
Now something personal.
I came from a secular leftish Hollywood entertainment family. Christianity wasn't just alien to me and my family, it was abhorrent.
Christians rejected the Sacred secular/left tenets of feminism, abortion, divorce, promiscuity, ever increasing taxes, destruction of the family, and etc. and I had been taught how awful these people were because of this.
Then my brother died of an overdose. Then my mother and father descended into a spiral of self destruction. I got damaged along the way.
The utter lie of our life and our 'values' was clearly demonstrated to me. Sure, it could be nice, but it was as durable as a house of cards in a hurricane.
Then I saw some examples of imperfect people who were living in poly and while I wasn't going to join them I was fascinated because what could be seen were big families, feminine wives, and hard working husbands. And they were clean, well fed, and smiling in the face of adversity.
That looked pretty good to me and I sought it out.
God led me to an established poly family who were struggling Christians, their second wife was trying but she, like me, came from a secular background. They were trying to lead a Godly life and the evidence of it was abundant.
The husband was assuming his role as the patriarch. He had things to work on but he was working on them.
The kids were happy and well behaved.
The debts were paid off.
Good things were happening.
A Blessing was descending.
I had to be cajoled into making up my mind but I did and I joined them.
At the start I obeyed the house rules and later discovered the Biblical sources of those rules.
Crazy thing is my life got better.
As I came along I took on the role of a wife and my husband and family responded to me with support and encouragement. They sent me to culinary school. They sent me to martial arts training. I became a pilot. They made me into the person they knew I could be.
None of this would have happened had I not sought out a more Godly life.
It's part of why I don't necessarily see God's Law as The Law. I see it as loving and fatherly advice.
God wants us to be His People and He wants us to prosper as His children. Not in the 'name it and claim it' sense, but He wants us to prosper as the logical outcome of living a Godly life.
Therefore His Laws, which stand the test of time, contribute to our overall happiness and prosperity. There are logical outcomes with demonstrated results of living a Godly life versus living a life without God.
That to me is the line that divides God's Laws from the laws of men. God's Laws always lead to productive and predictable outcomes and they stand the test of time, just the same as their Author.
The laws of men can be cast aside with no detriment. This is because they never had a measurable benefit.
I hope that answers your question @Mojo
